Koltec-Necam

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Question (about Koltec-Necam)

Does not work on LPG at all

nakin
Hello Kees,
Can you give me an advice with my problem?
My car does not work on LPG at all. The tank is full, which is also indicated by the gas/petrol switch - all leds a green, but the top one (i think it is for diagnostic purpose) stays red, previously it was blinking orange for some seconds while
establishing the LPG mode.
The system is Necam Mega with distributor, the label on ECM says year 2000. I do connect grey wire to ground (chassis) and turn on the key without starting the engine. The leds turn on one after another as usualy, and the top one stays red again.
Next to the grey wire (which is on A9 pin of the ECM) there is a yellow one on A8 - it also hangs unconnected and ends with a
plastic plug which matches with that of the grey wire. I tempt to connect them to each other. On A10 ther is no voltage and no ground, should I connect them together?
My gas technician have said the MAP and temperature sensors are ok, the stepper motor works, and there is a gas preasure after the vaporiser. I have personally measured the input signals (on ECM pins) of TPS, oxygen, MAP, Temp and Oxygen sensors.
- Temp sensor has 0.25V and 216 ohms at hot vaporiser, 390 ohms at warm, 1700 ohms and more getting cooler.
- MAP has 4.85V at "contact", 1.2V at idle speed and drops down to 0.5V by pressing the accelerator.
- RPM comes from main ECU with 3.0V and 120ms period.
- TPS is 0.524V at idle speed to 4.5V on pressed accelerator.
- Oxygen 200-385mV
It seems there are input signals to the computer. But according to my measurements there are no output signals. Only K1 (main relay) opens (A1 output) and so Y2 and Y3 valves open too. However A4 and A2 pins stay at 12V and because of this Y1 DFCO flap can not be opened and petrol injectors (by K3 relay) closed. Also there are no signals to the stepper motor in the distributor.
Previously I was having a problem with immobiliser, the engine was not starting. I saw the gas computer opened in the technician's hands. Inside it, there was an EPROM with uncovered window, could it be erased accidentally? Could they
reprogram the main ECU (with program (for only petrol) that does not communicate with gas computer) or/and gas computer in
order to expel the immo part from them?
Can somebody provide me with such a program/data or firmware to set up the EPROM again?
Thank you very much for any suggestions!

3 Answer

  • Kver Kver | Netherlands | Subject Experience (show)
    Hi Nakin,

    When the led only is red contineaous, there is something wrong with the computer, or there is just 1 power connected.
    There are 2 2,5A fuses for the gas system.
    1 for contineous power and 1 for interrupted power by turn on and out the contact and switch.
    If the power is ok, you can reset the gas ecu by disconnect 1 battery clamp and press the brake pedal for 10 seconds.
    After this you can connect the battery clamp again.

    Succes,

    Kees
    • nakin nakin
      Thank you Kees,
      The two fuses are there and work. I have measured all "supply" and "ground" pins of the computer, all of them are ok.
      I have been doing the reset several times by removing those fuses, and also by disconnecting and removing the ECM. Nothing different. Totaly dead.
      If the problem is due to the firmware, whom should i refer to: Koltec or the installer? Could you help me with this?
      20 May 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nakin,

      Yes it seems the eprom is deleted by take off the cover of it.
      Is there a difference when you try it without the eprom?
      It can be only the ECU is broken and not the eprom.
      As far as I know must the system switch to lpg without eprom.
      Where do you live/(which country)
      I can deliver a new ECU for low price, only I don't'just have the right eprom.
      A new eprom costs about 200 euros.

      The signal of the Mapsensor has to be about 4,8V at stand and 1,2 at stationairy.
      When you step on the accelerator, the voltage has to go higher.
      Only at decelleration the voltage may go lower as 1,2 volts.
      The voltage on the temperature sensor has to be about 1,2 volts at high temperature and 300 ohms.
      21 May 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      I thought in the eprom there should be a parametric table stored with values about all those volts and ohms needed, and a driving program. I think, i already have drove the car with gas ECU disconnected and only indicator switch connected and switched to gas (just for fun). The top orange indicator which at normal should begin blinking now was steady on.
      I'll try with ecu with eprom removed as soon as i get it from the technician where i left it at last. I am not sure there will be any difference, but who knows...
      Indeed i had two measurements of the MAP sensor when stepped on the accelerator: first one shown the voltage getting higher than 1,2V, and second getting lower, but i was confused which one is correct, now i understand.
      Temp sensor however has only 0,25V. I am going to look for a replacement.
      200 euros for a new eprom are too much for me. For those money they can install me a new common installation keeping the gas tank and selling unused parts. However i really want to recover my current installation.

      Thank you again,

      Nasko,
      Varna, Bulgaria
      atanasb@yahoo.com

      (those poor bulgarians with old dutch cars! :)
      21 May 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      Hope to read soon what the result is.

      Best Regards,

      Kees
      22 May 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi again Kees,
      Can you tell me something about Monio diagnose programm?
      Here, in bulgaria, i couldn't find someone using it.
      Should this program show something useful in my case or it would most likely show "no communication"?
      Perhaps, this program with interface cable are also expensive.

      Best regards,
      Nasko
      BG
      21 May 2009
    • Kver Kver
      hi Nasko,

      I hav to disappoint you again,
      The monio program is possible to get, but not the interface cable.
      I looking just for 5 years and don't have it by myself.

      Regards,

      Kees
      22 May 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi again Kees,
      I am looking for another ECM to replace the failed one.
      But how can i be sure if one ecm is for EGI or for SGI system, if the seller does not know by himslef?
      May you tell me if there is a difference between EGI and SGI computer in mean of casing or pin layout (that's how do they look like) or they share a common case and interface form factor/layout/?

      Thank you very much for your help!

      Nasko
      05 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      Yes, there is a difference between a EGI and GSI computer.
      You can't change them.
      Can you send me a picture of your old ecu?
      May be I can deliver you.
      For what type car is it?
      05 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      Here are the two ecm.
      As you can see the service number (first line) is the same. I hope this means the hardware is the same.
      But the second line is different, may be that denotes the software, who knows?!
      I really do not know if the timings and signal levels will be the same, but i'll measure them before connecting the lines.
      I don't have yet the new ecm, but i can have it.
      What do you thing Kees, will that ecm work for me?
      If you can offer me something other, i'll be thankful!

      Best regards,
      Nasko.
      06 Jun 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasko,

      The hardware of these ECM are different i think.
      The Kia ECM is for the lpg system and the Daewoo ESM is for the petrol system.
      You can't change them.
      14 Jun 2009
    • nakin nakin
      Hi, Kees,
      As I concluded, the problem was due to an erased eprom. The technicians to whom I went previously to solve my immobilizer problem did not only fix the immo, but instead broke the gas computer by erasing its memory. This lead to half an year going to other (gas) services and technicians spending money (for driving on gasoline and for unnecessary diagnostics), time and nerves while excluding any other reason. The two pseudo masters who erased the memory and to whom I was going several times to force them to reprogram and restore the memory, declined my requests, saying that they did not do any mistake, and what they were programmed, they were recovered (impudent liars). At my last visit to them, I insisted to get the file for the eprom, which I was almost sure they were stored. And, wonder, they gave it to me, and I reprogrammed the memory, and all started to work normal as usually.
      Thank you, Kees for your support!

      Best regards,

      Nasko
      21 Jul 2009
    • Kver Kver
      Hi Nasco,

      Congratulations with the results and thanks for the message.

      Best regrads,

      Kees
      31 Jul 2009
  • Hi Kver, I have problem with Koltec VG392 / Necam Mega from year 2003 on my vehicle Volvo 850 turbo too. When the engine goes to the higher revs (around 2500 and higher), it starts misfiring. It seems there is not enough fuel flowing. Nobody in my country does not know these systems, so I would like to ask You, what should I do. There is no warning LED shining.
  • desp desp | Poland | Subject Experience (show)
    Hi nakin,
    can you tell me one thing? When you turned ignition on without starting the engine and switched to lpg did the light go on, then off and stayed that way? And when you grounded the grey wire did you get the blink codes? I have situation like that. When I turn the engine on and switch to lpg the light indicates it's immediatelly on, both valves in back and before vapourizer are opened, gas flows but the pb injectors are not cut off, lpg injectors don't work and the car drives on gasoline, although it should on lpg.
    • nakin nakin
      Hi desp,
      I do not remember all the status of the light as it was a time ago, but I think it was always on and red colored. Like, it is saying to us that “there is a problem”. The test with grey wire however did not show me anything, possibly, because there wasn’t any test program in my erased by then memory.
      In you case, if the light is not red, but yellow this should mean by me that “all is ok”. But the normal behavior on switching to lpg is firstly blinking red (during transition process), then yellow steady on. If the valves are being opened then there is a program in your lpg computer which drives them (memory is not erased). But if cut off gasoline valve doesn’t work there are following possibilities by me:
      1. Valve is broken.
      2. Lost connection - wire from lpg computer to valve is cut or contacts at the ends are poor or lost.
      3. Program in lpg computer has a bug or flaw. Memory/chip is bad. Try with other computer or memory chip from a car with make and model same or similar to yours. When I tried this with my car it worked at least at idle speed.
      4. other reason that I do not know.

      However, I am not a specialist, but a common user/driver.
      And I really don’t know if driving program and parameters data share common memory space in the chip or they are separated. So, when I say “program is erased”, I mean there is something erased and it may be not the program but the data, or both.
      02 Jul 2010
    • desp desp
      Hi Nakin!
      As far, as I know the valve is ok. Connection has to be checked - so will do people that know how to do it on Monday;)
      Unfortunately I don't have anyone to lend me computer, so I cannot check that. Hope it's not that. Anyway, thanks for response. Hope I can fix that car without additional costs. If you have any more ideas I'll be very grateful:)
      PS. Do you know, if the eeprom is the same for different cars, or is it more than just software that changes?
      03 Jul 2010
    • nakin nakin
      Hi desp,
      My car is Kia Clarus 2.0 98kw, 1997 and memory is 27C256 UV erasable PROM (with glass window), file is 32kB (32x8b=256Kb). I think, the chip technicians gave me to try was from Seat 2000 or 1600cm3 and it worked at idle speed but didn't want to accelerate. Later we programmed new chip from a shop with the right data (my old program - which other technicians were saved before) and all worked well.
      I don't know but may be most manufacturers use same chips. However, software is specific for a make/model. So, it may work with other software, but also may not work or work partially. I don't think however that such a try will cause you some extra damage. But I warn you that i am not a technician!
      May be, you should also measure somehow (with voltmeter or oscilloscope) pin signals from lpg computer and check if they change.

      Wish you luck!
      06 Jul 2010
    • desp desp
      Thanks a lot. Checked almost everything, even switched computers. It was a broken wire, a connection with dfco valve. Also there are two more relays to switch between LPG and pb injectors. Had to replace them too. Now it works, but as it seems I have a problem with oxygen sensor. On Monday I'll check the connection and if needed - change the sensor.
      Thanks for advice, it really helped.
      17 Jul 2010
    • nakin nakin
      Thank you for your answer, desp. I am glad I was helpful to you somehow.
      I was sure that you will deal with it.
      21 Jul 2010
    • desp desp
      I finally got it! It was one of the additional relays, also loose connection to the dfco valve. Still there's one small problem, but i hope to deal with it quite soon.
      02 Sep 2010
    • nakin nakin
      So many problems that it sounds like "built from a scrap" or "self-made car" ;-) But the same you could say in my case too, including immobilizer problem i had. Most important in such a case is to not give up! :-)
      Good luck!
      03 Sep 2010
    • desp desp
      Thanks:) Unfortunately I have bought this car from car technician that has told me that this car was flawless, no need to repair anything. So I believed him until one month later, when car didn't start. So did the problems begin;)
      03 Sep 2010
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